Wednesday, November 10, 2010

Double-Talk on UOJ

ELS Pastor David Jay Webber found he could work with Masonic Ex-Pastor Floyd Luther Stolzenburg and his Shrinker buddy Roger Kovaciny.



Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Joe Krohn Reads Beckman":

Rydecki is being coached by ELSian Pastor David Jay Webber.

From Extra Nos:

David Jay Webber: "And remember that everything the Bible says about justification, it says in Christ, and because of Christ. In Christ, as God looks at the world through Christ, all are under divine mercy and are forgiven, and are therefore invited to believe
and be saved. But outside of Christ, as God looks at the world
apart from Christ, all are under divine wrath and judgment,
and are condemned. The same people - namely all people - are under consideration in each case.

This is a paradox to be sure, but the Word of God, with its lawgospel
message, is full of such paradoxes."
6:40AM

When asked where Scripture teaches that God looks at all believers and unbelievers being IN CHRIST and all believers and unbelievers being OUTSIDE OF CHRIST Pastor Webber responded, "Of course the Bible does not say exactly this in so many words. But the basic point is reflected here: "For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have
mercy on all" (Romans 11:32)."

12:26PM

http://extranos.blogspot.com/2010/03/grinding-my-ax.html

Webber has been coaching Rydecki in the double speak of UOJ. If God sees the whole unbelieving world as being IN CHRIST - ie: declared guiltless and forgiven through the washing of Christ's righteousness and they're still condemned because they don't believe it even though they've been declared righteous IN CHRIST - so Christ's righteousness must not truly cleanse an individual of God's wrath and condemnation so all believers and unbelievers must still be seen as OUTSIDE OF CHRIST. There really is no comfort in UOJ and so they gnash their teeth against Justification by Faith Alone and cling tightly to forgiveness and righteousness bestowed before they ever "believed".

UOJ perverts the righteousness of Christ and so their false gospel destroys Christianity and leaves it and those who confess it in chaos ready to be absorbed by the New Age religion of Universalism.

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GJ - UOJ is a repudiation of the Gospel in the Means of Grace.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Joe Krohn Reads Beckman":

Additional proof that UOJ, (W)ELS, Rydecki and Webber teaches a new and false gospel:

David Jay Webber, "The "objective" side of justification is for faith, and is an invitation to faith, so that faith can have something to believe in. The "subjective" sideof justification is in and by faith, when an individual believes the gospel message, brought to him in the means of grace, that his sin is forgiven."

Isolating the main point, "...when an individual believes the gospel message...that his sin is forgiven."

You see forgiveness for UOJ, (W)ELS and Jay Webber must come before faith otherwise faith would have nothing to cling to. UOJ teaches it is not the promise of the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ's Atonement: Christ paying for the worlds sin, that the Holy Spirit uses to create faith. The new UOJ gospel is as the (W)ELS doctrinal book Our Great Heritage states, ""And yet many Lutherans still labor under the delusion that God does not forgive us unless we believe. Instead of seeing faith as nothing more than the spiritual hand with which we make the forgiveness of God our own, they see it as a reason why God forgives us. They believe that Christ has indeed provided forgiveness for all men, that God is willing to forgive them, but before he really forgives he first of all demands that we should be sorry for our sins and that we should have faith. Just have faith they say, and then God will forgive you. All the right words are there. The only thing wrong is that the words are in the wrong order. God does not forgive us IF we have faith. He has forgiven us long ago when he raised his Son from the dead." (p. 59)

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GJ - Our Great Heritage has an essay where the quia subscription to the Book of Concord is clearly repudiated.

"Are We Bound Only to What the Confessions Teach?" Arnold Koelpin

Our Great Heritage, vol. I, p. 434.

But it originally appeared in The Northwestern Lutheran, Vol. 60 1973, 353 Prof. Arnold Koelpin.